Upload speed limitation detection

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cobrax2
Posts: 16
Joined: 2003-02-12 03:53

Upload speed limitation detection

Post by cobrax2 » 2003-03-06 10:47

Pls. a quick one :)
How can i detect if one is using some speed limitation, beside downloading smthg from him?
thx

GargoyleMT
DC++ Contributor
Posts: 3212
Joined: 2003-01-07 21:46
Location: .pa.us

Re: Upload speed limitation detection

Post by GargoyleMT » 2003-03-06 12:37

Absolutely nothing.

Even if you're downloading something from him, you can't know if he's limiting or not, he could be at a university where they QoS DC traffic, or he could be on the other end of a really poor link from you. Even different up/download speeds are no indication.

cobrax2
Posts: 16
Joined: 2003-02-12 03:53

Post by cobrax2 » 2003-03-06 15:23

this is not accurate
there are many hubs to which if i connect using an upload limiter i get kicked out with the reason: dont use upload limiter. furthermore, they somehow detect if i use the limiter or not... (if i set it to 0k is ok for those hubs)
any ideas?

Sapporo
Posts: 36
Joined: 2003-02-09 23:10
Location: AZ, USA

Post by Sapporo » 2003-03-06 17:43

It all depends on the client your using. If your client reports that it has an upload limiter in the tag it sends to the HUB, then yes they know.

The only way someone will know if your are doing any kind of bandwidth limiting is if you tell them.

GargoyleMT
DC++ Contributor
Posts: 3212
Joined: 2003-01-07 21:46
Location: .pa.us

Post by GargoyleMT » 2003-03-06 20:49

cobrax2 wrote:this is not accurate
there are many hubs to which if i connect using an upload limiter i get kicked out with the reason: dont use upload limiter. furthermore, they somehow detect if i use the limiter or not... (if i set it to 0k is ok for those hubs)
any ideas?


Well, exactly what Sapporo said. If the mod maker put a reporting facility into their client, then ... yes, you can detect it. But if the reporting facility is taken out, you won't ever know. I mean, they could be limiting their upload to something low (and even reporting a much higher cap), or using another P2P application, or throttling their uploads with a QoS router, or whatever.

It boils down to trusting the remote client to tell you it's "hacked." Anyone with access to DC++ (and thus an illegal copy of Visual Studio.net) can find Alyandon's patches, BCDC's source code, CZDC++'s source, or DC++-k's source and find the upload coad. They can either remove the limits to the upload caps or the reporting facilities.

This is not supposed to be a war of escalation, but I firmly believe the user should be in control of their upload facilties. That means trusting them to be reasonable. If you treat everyone who wants upload caps as a criminal, then that's how they'll behave.

The answer is to invest time and resources into developing and deploying something that rewards people for uploading to others, like a ratings system (another thread), not to try to find out ways to detect moded clients (because you will lose).

(The later versions of BCDC and Alyandon's patch don't report the B: tag if the upload cap is 0kbps. Earlier versions said B:* for unlimited, or B:0 [also unlimited] for really old versions. -- In case you want to penalize those too stupid/uninformed to be able to defeat such reporting. The 'L' tag was also used.)

cobrax2
Posts: 16
Joined: 2003-02-12 03:53

Post by cobrax2 » 2003-03-07 03:37

GargoyleMT wrote:
cobrax2 wrote:this is not accurate
there are many hubs to which if i connect using an upload limiter i get kicked out with the reason: dont use upload limiter. furthermore, they somehow detect if i use the limiter or not... (if i set it to 0k is ok for those hubs)
any ideas?


Well, exactly what Sapporo said. If the mod maker put a reporting facility into their client, then ... yes, you can detect it. But if the reporting facility is taken out, you won't ever know. I mean, they could be limiting their upload to something low (and even reporting a much higher cap), or using another P2P application, or throttling their uploads with a QoS router, or whatever.

It boils down to trusting the remote client to tell you it's "hacked." Anyone with access to DC++ (and thus an illegal copy of Visual Studio.net) can find Alyandon's patches, BCDC's source code, CZDC++'s source, or DC++-k's source and find the upload coad. They can either remove the limits to the upload caps or the reporting facilities.

This is not supposed to be a war of escalation, but I firmly believe the user should be in control of their upload facilties. That means trusting them to be reasonable. If you treat everyone who wants upload caps as a criminal, then that's how they'll behave.

The answer is to invest time and resources into developing and deploying something that rewards people for uploading to others, like a ratings system (another thread), not to try to find out ways to detect moded clients (because you will lose).

(The later versions of BCDC and Alyandon's patch don't report the B: tag if the upload cap is 0kbps. Earlier versions said B:* for unlimited, or B:0 [also unlimited] for really old versions. -- In case you want to penalize those too stupid/uninformed to be able to defeat such reporting. The 'L' tag was also used.)


yes i got it thx

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