"proper" help?

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Garet Jax
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"proper" help?

Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 13:41

I think that instead, or hopefully, besides doing that, someone* could make a full newbie help available from "help" menu in DC++. When I say full, I mean some kind of "step by step" guide, maybe even with some screenshots :wink: ?

That would solve, not only the "can't download and search" problem, but also the "I'm a newbie, how do I start?" issue, etc.


*ehem... someone. I could try to do that, but my english and DC++ knowledge is not high, so ''help would be appreciated''


So, what do You think?
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Charalambos
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-01 13:59

I think that those who aren't able to figure out how dc++ works (by trying, experiencing, reading faq, using search button in forum, having a little idea of how a computer works) shouldn't be using it.

Don't get me wrong, but those who are too lazy or too stupid to figure out how to read faq's, should NOT be honored with dc++.

This isn't a such great effort, don't you think?
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
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TheParanoidOne
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 14:00

This has actually been suggested before. :D

I've mentioned it before, but as with all documentation, people are either too busy to do it or don't want to do it. It's not the most glamorous part of a software project. :)

I have started working on something but time is always against me. My "Guide" is divided into the following sections:
  1. Background - A brief intro to DC++ and comparison to other P2P apps.
  2. Getting Started - Featuring my patented "4-step guide".
  3. Advanced Usage - Featuring things like Favourites, Priority Levels, Connection modes, etc
  4. User Interface - A description of all the elements of the user interface, with accompanying pics.
  5. Troubleshooting
  6. DC++ Etiquette
  7. Definitions - What is a hub? Slots? Search Spam?
I was also thinking about an FAQ section just for completion, but it seems redundant considering there already *is* an FAQ.

The most important part at the moment is the Getting Started section which is almost finished. Once that is done, I will put it up somewhere and then do the rest as and when I have the time. :)

Time ... :sigh:
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 14:10

Charalambos wrote:Don't get me wrong, but those who are too lazy or too stupid to figure out how to read faq's, should NOT be honored with dc++.

This isn't a such great effort, don't you think?
I agree with you there. The program is so small that you can easily press all the buttons and select all the settings in one sitting. I don't like it when people come along and just say "I'm new. What do I do". :(

Having said that though, the lack of sufficient documention is very noticeable and should be fixed as soon as possible.

Garet Jax:
You might want to send a PM to Paul_Don. He has created an interesting Flash introduction to DC++, related to his hub only though. I'm sure he would be able to give you the URL to go check it out.
Garet Jax wrote:*ehem... someone. I could try to do that, but my english and DC++ knowledge is not high, so ''help would be appreciated''
You know you could, if you wanted to. The beauty of an OSS project: you can easily be a contributor. :)
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 14:20

Charalambos:
I don't agree. Not all people who can't use DC++ after reading faq ect., are stupid. Sometimes they just don't use computer except for e-mail, or Word or something like that. Sometimes they are old people, who just catch on things slowly (although they're much smarter then us). Sometimes they don't even know what slot, P2P, firewall are. And all those people should have been given possibility to download some stuff form Internet. (I know they can use KaZaA, but since DC++ is much better...). That's my opinion :)

Paranoid:
:oops: I knew it was somewhere (i think i've seen it before), but I couldn't find it by searching...
That's nice of You, that You do it :)
So i guess that topic is over now.
(if U want I could help You with something :))
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 14:23

AAAAAA! Don't write posts so fast... That would be nice if I would be able to finish my response before next post :lol: :lol: :lol: ...
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 14:27

ParanoidOne wrote:The most important part at the moment is the Getting Started section which is almost finished.
If You are already doing it, there is no reason for doing the same work twice, isn't it?
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 14:46

Garet Jax wrote:I don't agree. Not all people who can't use DC++ after reading faq ect., are stupid. [snip]
Well my question in response is, if these people only use their computers for just email and surfing, why exactly are they using a P2P app? That confuses me.
Garet Jax wrote:AAAAAA! Don't write posts so fast...
Hee! :)
Garet Jax wrote:If You are already doing it, there is no reason for doing the same work twice, isn't it?
Not necessarily. Different people will have different perspectives and would therefore write things in different ways. It could then all be integrated in the end.

If you don't want to do what seems like repetition, you could always take another section. eg. Definitions. What kind of definitions should be put in? Should it contain just strictly DC++ related terms? Or how about network terms (IP address, port, etc) or even lower level?

There's plenty to do :)

Oh dear. I think I have rambled. :oops:
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 15:18

TheParanoidOne wrote:if these people only use their computers for just email and surfing, why exactly are they using a P2P app?
What I meant is that those people used computer for such reason, and now they want eg. download lot of completely legal :wink: music. It doesn't matter for what reason. The point is, that people can feel uncomfortable, and confused when using computer, but it doesn't mean that they are stupid. I know people like that, and they really smart. :(
TheParanoidOne wrote:Different people will have different perspectives and would therefore write things in different ways. It could then all be integrated in the end.

If you don't want to do what seems like repetition, you could always take another section. eg. Definitions. What kind of definitions should be put in? Should it contain just strictly DC++ related terms? Or how about network terms (IP address, port, etc) or even lower level?
So I guess, what u are proposing is that we start some kind of discussion here? As for me, I would think about it some more and then post my thoughts, is it okay?

About Definitions:
If You put to much there it'll turn into "complete dictionary of networking" :) .
I think that there should be things directly related to "help", even such basic as port or firewall, but explained only from an DC++ angle.

Hmmm... maybe we should ask some Connection-Refused-By-Target-Machine-What-Do-I-Do users about what they would want there?
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 15:32

Garet Jax wrote:The point is, that people can feel uncomfortable, and confused when using computer, but it doesn't mean that they are stupid. I know people like that, and they really smart.
I don't mean to imply that they are stupid. As you say, these people may be very intelligent. Therein lies the problem. They may be intelligent people yet when faced with something they don't know (yet) they are suddenly allowed to wave their arms around screaming "I don't know what to do!"?

I don't expect people to know the ins and outs of DC++ the moment they use it (I certainly don't, even now!) - that's why we learn. A sign of intelligence to me, would be someone who tries to help themselves first, before escalating the problem.
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 15:49

TheParanoidOne wrote:A sign of intelligence to me, would be someone who tries to help themselves first, before escalating the problem.
Let say that (at least I hope so!) most of those people temporarly stopped thinking when they were posting messages. :)
TheParanoidOne wrote:they are suddenly allowed to wave their arms around screaming "I don't know what to do!"?
That's the thing We want to stop, by doing offline help.

But You must say that lot of them, stop posting after "Go and search" type response, and some even say sorry or thanks. It means that they finally thought.

Anyway, I thing that most of people with that kind of problems, don't post anything on forum, they just walk away...
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 16:03

Garet Jax wrote:That's the thing We want to stop, by doing offline help.
Oh dear. No offence, but either you are being very naive, or you have a lot more faith in humanity than I have. :)

People post their questions as if they are the first person in the world to have ever come across the problem, or ask the question. All the answers they want are already in the forums, if they would only search. If they are not going to make use of the information that is already there, what makes you think they will go to the offline help? People will still blunder in and ask their questions without any thought.
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Charalambos
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-01 16:03

Anyway, i think that if someone is intelligent, he first tries to figure out something he doesnt know.
If he doesnt figure it out, then he asks (and not before thinking and trying).

By the way, i guess that dc++ you can easily use ignoring all the settings stuff by just typing in a user name and a public hub list and then connect to a hub.
And that should every half-way intelligent human being be able to do
(unless he is too lazy to try).
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Garet Jax
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 16:38

I wrote:That's the thing We want to stop, by doing offline help.

...at least limit it.
TheParanoidOne wrote:either you are being very naive, or you have a lot more faith in humanity than I have
Yup, I probably have more faith in ppl.
TheParanoidOne wrote:what makes you think they will go to the offline help?
Ehem... I think that people ussually refer to that kind of help first. ..Yeah, but if someone dunno how to search the forum, he wouldn't know how to find help probably...
:) Maybe there should be made an MessageBox(hwnd,'do You want to view help?','It's not working?',MB_OK)? :)



I don't think it will stop, but then we will be able to answer the posts: "Did You red the HELP??".
And DC++ will look more kind.
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 16:49

Charalambos wrote:Anyway, i think that if someone is intelligent, he first tries to figure out something he doesnt know.
If he doesnt figure it out, then he asks (and not before thinking and trying).
Agree.

Charalambos wrote:you can easily use dc++ ignoring all the settings stuff by just typing in a user name and a public hub list and then connect to a hub.
Yeah, but if people don't know what "hub" is, it's starting to be difficult.
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for he shall never be disappointed."

Charalambos
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-01 16:52

Garet Jax wrote:Yeah, but if people don't know what "hub" is, it's starting to be difficult.
If they don't know they can read the faq or search the forum.
It is all there.
The only thing they have to do is to READ.

Isn't reading easier than posting a new topic?
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 16:57

Garet Jax wrote:...at least limit it.
Agreed.
Garet Jax wrote::) Maybe there should be made an MessageBox(hwnd,'do You want to view help?','It's not working?',MB_OK)? :)
How about a little paper clip that says randomly "It looks like trying to search. Would you like help?" :lol:
Actually, I better be quiet. Someone will probably request that as a feature!
Garet Jax wrote:I don't think it will stop, but then we will be able to answer the posts: "Did You red the HELP??".
I completely agree.
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-01 17:05

Charalambos wrote:Isn't reading easier than posting a new topic?
I guess You're right.
TheParanoidOne wrote:How about a little paper clip that says randomly "It looks like trying to search. Would you like help?"
You mean like this f*** @[email protected]%^&*@* that You can install with Microsoft Office©? That would be a nightmare! :lol:


Anyway, I think that we went a little bit off topic...
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-01 17:09

TheParanoidOne wrote:How about a little paper clip that says randomly "It looks like trying to search. Would you like help?" :lol:
HHAAHHH! Great! :lol:
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-01 17:26

Charalambos wrote:HHAAHHH! Great! :lol:
Yay, peer aproval. So I'll just go implement it now then. :)

This is going so far off topic, it can't even *see* the topic any more.

So to bring us back, ... documentation = good! :)
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Post by Gratch06 » 2003-06-01 20:12

OK, just saw this thread about putting together some useful help files. Here's some stuff that I put together after walking altogether too many people through router configurations and the like on the fly. I would hope people know how to configure their own equipment (amazing how many don't) but this should save a lot of grief for the users that actually read help files. These were put together about three months ago, so some of the things may be a little out of date (i.e. with firmware upgrades). Anyway, enough chitter chatter, here they are:

Adding a Room to Favorites and making it autoconnect.
1. Go to connect, public rooms, pick the one you'd like to add, right click it, then choose "add to Favorites", close the window
2. Go to connect ---> favorite rooms, and check the box right next to it to autoconnect

Slots : Each person has so many slots opened (they set #) each slot allows one person to download from them, so if one person has 3 slots 3 ppl can download off of them
If all of the slots are taken then you get the "No Slots Available" Message.

Configuring the WinXP firewall
1. Click "Start" ----> "Control Panel" ---> "Network and Internet Connections"
2. Find your connection (for broadband users this will most likely be "Local Area Connection")
3. Right click on your connection, and click properties.
4. Click on the "Advanced" tab at the top.
5. Make sure the "Protect my computer and network by limiting or preventing access to this computer from the Internet" box is checked.
6. Click "Settings" in the lower right hand corner.
7. In the lower left hand corner, click "Add..."
8. Fill in all the info here. "Description of Service" put DC++
9. "Name or IP address..." put in your external IP address (available from www.whatismyip.com)
10. External port number, pick a number (1412 is usually a good one), and TCP, then click OK to close out.
11. Repeat steps 7 -10, except select UDP in the box.

Configuring your Firewall
1. Open a port for incoming traffic (1412 is usually a good one)
2. Open ALL ports for outbound (this will not allow traffic into your computer, but will allow you to upload files to other users)
3. Back in DC++, go to the settings menu, first tab.
4. Choose active mode and put in your external IP (available by going to www.whatismyip.com )
5. Put in the port number you chose (1412 if you went with the above reccommendation)
6. Hit OK, and have fun downloading!

Configuring a Linksys Router
1. Copy and paste the link http://192.168.1.1/ into your internet browser
2. Enter "admin" as password (no username)
3. Click the orange tab "advanced"
4. Click the orange tab "Port Forwarding"
5a. IF there is one box port, In the box at the left, under "service port" put a port number (1412 is a good one usually)
5b. IF it requests a PORT RANGE, use the same port in both (i.e. 1412 and 1412)
6. Under internal IP, put your internal IP available by typing "/showip" (without the quotes) in any mainchat window in ZPoC
7. Press "Apply" at the bottom of the window
8. back in DC++, go to the settings menu, first tab.
9. Choose active mode and put in your external IP (available by going to www.whatismyip.com )
10. Put in the port number you chose (1412 if you went with the above reccommendation)
11. Hit OK, and have fun downloading!

Configuring a Dlink Router
1. Copy and paste the link http://192.168.0.1/ into your internet browser
2. If you have not changed from defaults, username is admin, password is admin
2. Click "Avanced" along the top
3. Click "Virtual Server" on the left hand side
4. Choose "enabled" and as the name for the server entry, type DC++.
5. Insert your internal IP into the box marked Internal IP. Get your internal IP by start ---> run ---> cmd ---> ipconfig
6. Protocol Type: choose BOTH.
7 Private port: choose a port (1412 is usually a good one), Public port: use the same one (i.e. use 1412 as both private and public port)
8. Schedule: leave this at always
9. Press Apply and then click continue.
9. back in DC++, go to the settings menu, first tab.
10. Choose active mode and put in your external IP (available by going to www.whatismyip.com )
11. Put in the port number you chose (1412 if you went with the above reccommendation)
12. Hit OK, and have fun downloading!

Configuring a Speedstream Router
1. Copy and paste the link http://192.168.254.254/ into your internet browser
2. Click "Avanced", then "Virtual Server"
3. Enter your internal IP on both lines 1 and 2 where it says "Private IP" (Get your internal IP by start ---> run ---> cmd ---> ipconfig)
4. On Private AND public ports, put a port of your choice (1412 is usually a good one) on both lines 1 and 2
5. Press Enter
6. back in DC++, go to the settings menu, first tab.
7. Choose active mode and put in your external IP (available by going to www.whatismyip.com )
8. Put in the port number you chose (1412 if you went with the above reccommendation)
9. Hit OK, and have fun downloading!

Configuring an Alcatel Speed Pro Router (common in Brazil, so if someone wants to translate into Portuguese, feel free)
1. start ---> run ---> cmd
2. type telnet
3. type: o 10.0.0.138
4. type: NAT
5. Get your internal IP by start ---> run ---> cmd ---> ipconfig
6. Get your external IP by going to www.whatismyip.com
7. If your internal IP is 10.0.0.1 and your external IP is 200.1.1.1 type this: (change the numbers to your IP's)
8. type: create protocol=tcp inside_addr=10.0.0.1 inside_port=1412 outside_addr=200.1.1.1 outside_port=1412
9. type: create protocol=udp inside_addr=10.0.0.1 inside_port=1412 outside_addr=200.1.1.1 outside_port=1412
10. Exit the telnet window.
11. back in DC++, go to the settings menu, first tab.
12. Choose active mode and put in your external IP (available by going to www.whatismyip.com )
13. Put in the port number you chose (1412 if you went with the above reccommendation)
14. Hit OK, and have fun downloading!

Modify at will....

- Gratch

Garet Jax
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-02 07:50

Thanks a lot Gratch06! That's a good work.
I'm sure it will be used in help file.

More that kind of posts, and everybody will be happy. :D


As for my router:

Configuring a LG Router (tested on LRG 1004)
1. Copy and paste the link http://192.168.1.1/ into your internet browser
2. Enter Your password (I think that as default there is no password)
3. Go to "Advanced Setup"
4. Click the "NAT" tab
5. Then "Virtual Server" tab
6. Under "Mapping Ports" type a port number (1412 should be good)
7. In the "Server IP" type internal IP addres of Your computer*
8. Check the box "Enabled"
9. Press Apply
10. Close web browser

*actually in help file there should be described how to find internal IP <--that's obvious
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I have to do it anyway

Post by eburggraaf » 2003-06-04 17:54

Hi all who've been following this, I have to document something for my college english project. It'll be complete with links, screen shots, and every other opulence I can think of. If anybody's interested in helping, feel free to Email me or add me to chat. I was thinking of truning it over to some one else who's taking the cpa program, and see if they'll format it in html help with the treview and all that. Then if the developers want my work, they're welcome to it.
Cheers,
Erik

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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-09 16:38

I tentatively reveal the current state of my DC++ Guide.

As stated earlier, the only complete part is the Getting Started section. The others are either in production or not yet started.

As with all things I produce on the web, I go for content, structure and coherence rather than "pretty" so no complaints about the appearance please :) . (Actually, if anyone has any ideas about making it pretty, I'm willing to listen)

Let me know if their are any parts that are unclear, missing or even just plain wrong.
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-09 16:56

Great guide Paranoid, really!

Now every dumbass should be able to get dc++ started!:D

One point missing i think:
you didn't mention the slots.

Can't wait to see the next parts.
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-09 16:59

Charalambos wrote:Great guide Paranoid, really!
I agree! :D
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for he shall never be disappointed."

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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-09 17:08

Charalambos wrote:Now every dumbass should be able to get dc++ started!:D
Oh dear. Is it too late to delete it all? Everyone forget what you read! :D
Charalambos wrote:One point missing i think:
you didn't mention the slots.
Good point. I think that will only be a problem once someone starts connecting to more than one hub. But I guess it is something they should be made aware of at the beginning.
Charalambos wrote:Can't wait to see the next parts.
Neither can I. It should be available sometime in 2004. :wink:
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-09 17:16

TheParanoidOne wrote:It should be available sometime in 2004. :wink:
That should give most users enough time to get dc++ working as far as you described. :D
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
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Post by TheParanoidOne » 2003-06-11 19:29

Charalambos wrote:One point missing i think:
you didn't mention the slots.
Done.

Also, added screenshot of Settings --> Sharing to Sharing section.

If that's it for Getting Started, what the next section I should aim to complete?
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Post by Garet Jax » 2003-06-14 05:07

TheParanoidOne wrote:what the next section I should aim to complete?
I thing that the biggest problems people have with setting active mode.
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for he shall never be disappointed."

Charalambos
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-14 07:26

I think about active mode is first priority, because beginners can easily use dc++ in passive mode so far as in the guide.

Next section imo should be about the queue list, how to resume files, how to add mulitple sources...

(or perhaps you could add that to section 5. Begin Downloading)

Great work so far.
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
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Charalambos
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Post by Charalambos » 2003-06-14 07:29

I wrote:I think about active mode is first priority
I mean IS NOT first priority. :)
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it.
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ruidamiao
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Post by ruidamiao » 2003-11-16 01:26

Don't worry Gratch06: i'm portuguese, and i can guarantee u that there's no use to tranlate ur help about alcatel router...
The only difference is: "Start Menu" is "Menu Iniciar" and "Run" is "Executar"
All the other commands are more or less the same, as router setup are usually in english language!

I have an Alcatel 570 (with Linksys wireless USB Network Adapter) and when i try to do what u said abou creating nat entry, i get the following message:
"failed fo create static NAT entry"
i could use some help please.
tks in advance.

Gratch06
Posts: 141
Joined: 2003-05-25 01:48
Location: USA

Post by Gratch06 » 2003-11-17 11:42

Gratch06 wrote:8. type: create protocol=tcp inside_addr=10.0.0.1 inside_port=1412 outside_addr=0.0.0.0 outside_port=1412
9. type: create protocol=udp inside_addr=10.0.0.1 inside_port=1412 outside_addr=0.0.0.0 outside_port=1412
On these steps (note that they are changed a bit, 0.0.0.0 is a mask meaning "anything"), make sure that you replace the inside_addr=10.0.0.1 with the internal IP address of your computer (available via start --> run --> winipcfg, or start --> run --> cmd --> iponfig, depending on your OS). My guess is one of two things:
1) You or someone else is already forwarding that port. Try a different one.
2) You are trying to forward that port to a computer that does not exist, or to the router itself. Confirm the internal IP of your computer.

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